Reflections from far mland

Monday, July 31, 2006

reasonable proposal - if anyone will listen

first i would like to say that i am not affiliated to any lebanese party or organisation, and i came across this article written by Michel Aoun for the Wall Street Journal as i was browsing the news (which is all i'm doing these days)

i was surprised; it is measured, humanistic and sounds very FAIR in its proposal, if there's still space for fairness in this world.

as a lebanese who was suspicious of the nice and dandy 'cedar revolution' and yet could not find many alternatives in lebanese politics, this is the first time i feel a pang of reason and humanitarianism, while reading this proposal.

read it and tell me what you think

(do you think Bush or Condi would visit Reflections too?...i would SO love to hear their opinion on this)

posted by rouba at 12:55 PM

15 Comments:

  • Well a lot of us made our comments in the Thinking lebanese blog. Have a look. Basically Orange wielding Aoun should have a good look in the mirror, and spare us the crap he is writing in WSJ.

    The reason we are where we are, is partly because of him (I'm trying to be fair, I would have said solely because of his bull, but I decided to be balanced)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, July 31, 2006 1:49:00 PM  

  • i don't know abt this comment anon; why is what he wrote crap? and we are (partly) here because of him or because of us and our divisions?
    plus, i was asking abt WHAT he wrote and not WHO wrote it.
    can't we put our sectarian/political/religious affiliations aside, and consider if this proposal works?

    By Blogger rouba, at Monday, July 31, 2006 2:12:00 PM  

  • anon i just visited the thinking lebanese blog and looked at the comments. they were either angry, sectarian or finger-pointing comments. not one of them refuted the proposal with reasonable, humanitarian argument. and noone gave even a morsel of an alternative.
    i am afraid that even if this war stops soon, we are still miserable slaves to the who did and the who said and not to the 'what'

    By Blogger rouba, at Monday, July 31, 2006 2:19:00 PM  

  • and any orange colour on this blog is coincidental and used purely for aesthetic purposes

    By Blogger rouba, at Monday, July 31, 2006 2:29:00 PM  

  • Gaea, I understand what you're saying, but I find Aoun's comments insulting. He can never question himself. He will never admit that he was wrong. And here is playing the statesman. There is no plan in his op ed in the WSJ, it is only more about himself (admitedly a bit veiled, but still completely egocentrical).

    I do not want the readers to read an apologist for Hezballah's war crimes. He has not condemned Hezballah's irresponsible actions, and he seems to be defending them. This is not the picture of Lebanon we want to show to the world.

    We are guilty of divisions, but Michel Aoun is the first one to be guilty of divisions. Because of his wish to take a few laps in the Presidential pool, he is willing to compromise on everything he used to stand for. This latest article is not convincing anyone.

    It is thanks to his MOU with Hezballah that we are where we are today. And we will never forget.

    And please don't get me wrong, I don't support any of the other war criminals that pretend to do for Lebanon. I support a new species of politicians.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, July 31, 2006 2:35:00 PM  

  • anon: what is your nationality? And why are you anonymous?

    This is a copy/paste from your blog:

    "The only way this war will REALLY be over is if Hizbollah willingly disarm. And so the question is: If all the Lebanese are freed from the Israeli jails, and Shabaa is returned, and the maps of the mines are given, and there are no more air and sea violations of the border (this would require a peace treaty), then will Nassrallah lay down his weapons?"

    Man, this is the weirdest argument I have ever heard!!! It is like saying: If I stop harrassing you, killing you, torturing you ..., how do I know you will stop resisting?

    But I will answer with YES, I am willing to give the man the benefit of the doubt. He has much more credibility than Israel.

    Also, about the name of your blog ... Don't you "think" that the "Thinking lebanese blog" implies all other relevant lebanese blogs are non thinking ones? This is so analogous to how the "Lebanese forces" implies all other force are non lebanese ...

    By Blogger jooj, at Monday, July 31, 2006 3:12:00 PM  

  • Jooj, I am Lebanese, living in Paris. I am anonymous because I don't fell like opening a blogger account.

    And the thinking Lebanese blog is not my blog. I only commented there, as an Anonymous as well.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, July 31, 2006 3:25:00 PM  

  • "Second, the return of the Shebaa farms, a tiny piece of Lebanese territory still occupied by Israel."

    That's ridiculous. First, it's obviously not Lebanese territory and Lebanon itself agreed on that back in 2000. Second - why would Israel leave this territory - is it lost the war already or what?
    I don't think Lebanon is in a position for raising such demands.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, July 31, 2006 3:41:00 PM  

  • Gaea, thank you for posting GMA's article for others to read and appreciate.
    Like you, I believe it was well written, reasonable. But not more.
    There is a simplistic approach to the problem here on the side of General. Assuming that valuing life on either side is the starting point for resolving this issue is obvisouly an understatement. My guess is that this article was written in a moderate way to allow it to be published in a well read western journal. And it is a reminder to the americans who have repeatedly brushed off GMA, that he succeeded where the israeli tanks have failed: bringing Hezbollah to discuss its position, its arms and its future in the politics of Lebanon.
    Unfortunately, I have come to believe that Israel as a state, as an idea can not survive in a peaceful middle east. this is will abolish its raison-d'etre. And Lebanon, with its multireligious organization (so that i don't use the word democracy) is a direct threat to Israel, a religious and racist state.

    Anonymous: History alone will prove who was right and who was wrong. But History for sure, will not keep in its records the ideas of an "anonymous". As for the presidential laps in the presidential pool, min temmak la beb el sama!
    will let you carry the towels (the orange towels!)

    By Blogger Maya@NYC, at Monday, July 31, 2006 3:57:00 PM  

  • "...First, the return of Lebanese prisoners in Israeli prisons. Second, the return of the Shebaa farms, a tiny piece of Lebanese territory still occupied by Israel. And third, the formulation of a comprehensive strategy to provide for Lebanon's defense, centered upon a strong national army and central state decision-making authority in which all political groups are assured a fair opportunity to participate..."

    I have some issues with the above:
    To be a "nation" (placing the current conflict aside) I ask the following.

    1) What is to become of the Lebanese prisonners in Syrian jails?

    2)Will Syria sign off on the "Chebaa Farms" so that we can present the "Izhar Hdoud" to the UN; It is occupied currently by Israel but Syria is the owner in the eyes of the world? Why are we fighting for it? As far as the world is concerned we have nothing to do there. Do you see where and why there is a hold up?

    3) Why push for a strong national army. Our business is in rebuilding the country at this time. Yeanni, baad ma t3alamnah el-daress. It is not in our benefit to support any sort of military activity or presence. We are always the ones paying the price for "Al-Moukawameh". I mean the Moukawameh itself came to Lebanon in 1970 and actually forgot about Israel and engaged itself in the Lebanese war. A fact that the PLO admits to today. As far as Im concerned Lebanon has already payed enough; in blood and money. For f@#$'s sake our country has been destroyed again. Our blood has been spilled countless times. All while what, while the other Arab fronts are closed and their so called "powerhouse" armies/politicians watching; but they support us they say. F@#$ this BS, are we stupid or blind or what?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, July 31, 2006 4:44:00 PM  

  • i really have no trust in anything aoun says. he let down so many people. and is constantly trying to manouver into some position of power.
    i think he bears some moral responsibilty to the situation that is going on now

    By Blogger Lycanthropy, at Monday, July 31, 2006 7:49:00 PM  

  • I am not "orange", but I think what is in this proposal is VERY reasonable and reflects the thoughts of someone who truly cares about solving the internal Lebanese problems.
    In any conflict, resolution requires an agreed compromise from both sides. If the March14 goverment continues in their concerted disregard of HA and what it represents, we will never solve any problems. Same applies to HA if they ignore what the other lebanese parties want, there is no hope for a solution.
    I think any objective reader who can put aside religious/sectarian/tribal feelings, would find that this proposal is very reasonable, and could be a stepping stone for the country. It is also important that Aoun achieved what everybody else failed to, he got HA to discuss their weapons.
    As for Anon's comment: "I do not want the readers to read an apologist for Hezballah's war crimes. He has not condemned Hezballah's irresponsible actions, and he seems to be defending them. This is not the picture of Lebanon we want to show to the world."
    I actually RESPECT GMA for doing that. Wether you like it or not HA are lebanese people, and represent a large section of the lebanese population. They did liberate Lebanon from Israeli occupation whether you like it or not. These are facts on the ground. GMA is dealing with the facts, and giving a livable solution that can bring together people who are ideologically different without war.
    As for accusing him to use all of this a way to seek power..Give me the name of one politician in Lebanon who is not seeking power!!
    In times like this, we need to get out of our strict sectarian/religious and political affiliations, and recognize the presence of another party in Lebanon, who is different but not less lebanese.
    I think everyone should read this proposal in an objective way.

    Concerned Lebanese, fed up of hatred and ta2fieh.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Monday, July 31, 2006 10:35:00 PM  

  • i wish it was this simple..this is the US prepping for its iran war. check the post i had from aljazeera. it's unravelling very well and with the new CNN PR machinery about the marines bombing in 82, relating it to HA then switching to images of the "terrorists" being trained in iran.. our internal crap means nothing right now and even if HA disarmed, i bet you they won't stop. they're pushing iran's buttons and the US is sending troups to iraq.. they hit the UN on purpose to make it look obsolete only to encourage the crazy over there not to comply with the resolution at the end of august. an israeli commentator said that early on. wars like that are much bigger than us. just like iraq has been planned even in clinton days, the US/Iran war has been planned since iraq. they hit iraq, weaken a possible sunni cabinet, the other sunni regimes are scared and have interests with the US, formulate an anti-shii axis of terror, now with the support of socialist countries to iran..it's WWIII...

    By Blogger Unknown, at Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:24:00 AM  

  • i believe if we had been united against israel from day #1 this war would have taken a very different outlook.
    i doubt the US will wage a war against iran now; they're in too deep in iraq and still deploying troops there; israel will take 10 more days to destroy all it can get its bombs on and pull back out. but then we'll still be left to pick up the pieces, hence my worries abt internal conflicts in lebanon.
    if there are still people who categorise according to sect/party/religion then HA will take the brunt of the blame, half the country with, half against, no diplomacy will be initiated, and then go figure.
    this is why Aoun's proposal (let's forget for a moment that HE is posing it) works for me if they'll let him implement it. it's based on diplomacy (and HA are willing to negotiate, isn't that a giant step??), on non-sectarianism and popular representation in the government, things that are necessary if any kind of progress is to be made.
    the problem is that people (and i think it's instinctual in the lebanese) are quick to judge because it's him who is proposing this solution. i also think the christians in lebanon are mortally afraid of being underrepresented in a non-sectarian government because they are becoming a minority.
    mr N: about syria and the prisoners as well as Shebaa, i agree that this should also be negotiated. we will never gain anything by force, i also agree. that is why Aoun's proposal may work. he wants to disarm HA and unify the army (i'm sure he does not expect to form a strong, fighting army but at least it will be the only military force in lebanon). so we have to start from somewhere; we will not gain anything if we have no starting ground, and this is what his proposal represents. a stepping stone. we can work on the rest from there.
    it is also a way to avoid internal strife post-war.
    that's my opinion. i have not seen any alternatives yet to compare. most people reject this proposal but do not offer alternative solutions.

    By Blogger rouba, at Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:57:00 AM  

  • please post:
    America Should Stop the Bloodshed
    WHAT: Silent candlelight vigil
    WHEN: Thursday, August 3rd, 7:30pm
    WHERE: South side of Union Square Park, New York City

    By Blogger Unknown, at Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:08:00 PM  

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